Your Religion, Your Beliefs, and Why

[Wags]

Mee, as long as you keep your posts civil, you can post in here anytime you want.

[Ex-One-Week Wizard]

Ahh, but I'm rarely civil.

In other news, it sorta ticks me off how the stores are all like "OYAYBUYEASTERSTUFFZHERE!" and it's still Lent.

Sorta like Obama dying, and everyone forgets about him and has a parade for the new president.


And if anyone says "We shouldn't have to be solemn just because of you Catholics!", well...

It's a Catholic holiday.

Just like Christmas.


I think that, because Christians started it (or, if you want to get into the whole "Christmas was pagan, so therefore Jesus is evil" argument, Christians popularized it and made it what it is today), we should at least get a nod of acknowledgement.

But no! Holidays are for everyone!

Okay then. Let me celebrate Hannukah and Yom Kippur. Except for the fact that I'll completely ignore that it's some Jewish holiday. I just want the stuff.

Now, if it was like THAT, that would be racist and insensitive, right?


Beeeeeh.

"You shall love thy neighbor and hate they enemies." THAT is why the Jews aren't as easy to pick on than Christians.

I mean, there are a lot of Jew jokes, but there are almost no negative portrayals in Hollywood.

[wilemi]

And if anyone says "We shouldn't have to be solemn just because of you Catholics!", well...

It's a Catholic holiday.

Just like Christmas.

THe thing is, didn't you say in another thread that Lent was voluntary? Obviously, the stores are just trying to get sales from people who don't follow Lent. Like Christmas - it's like having non-Christians saying, that you can't celebrate Christmas just because they don't.

Secondly, about the mention of Christmas, I do believe that's a national holiday, and the fact that it was originally pagan still stands, regardless of whether Christianity popularised it. If a Hindu holiday was claimed by Christians, would that make it undeniably Christian and nobody else can celebrate it because Christianity made it "popular"?
Besides - trees and eggs are both pagan symbols of fertility, hence where the tradition of Christmas trees and Easter eggs came from.

[Forge]

--Elephant parable--

It's at best ambiguous, or at worst an example of law of noncontradiction.

Whenever one of the blind men said "This is an X", he was implying it was not a Y or Z. I.e. "This is not a rope, fan, branch, pipe, or wall, but a pillar only!"

Thus, when the wise men says "they are all right", he throws logic out the window. None of them are right. They're all wrong. Only the wise man, who can tell what an elephant is, is right. (I'm also ignoring the fact that calling parts of an elephant a pillar or a pipe is dead wrong).

It's the same reason that "God exists"/"God does not exist" and/or "Jesus is God"/"Jesus is not God" can never coexist.

[Ex-One-Week Wizard]

Meh, I guess you're right, wilemi.

Sorry... ^_^

[Kali Gargoyle]

Yes, Theism/Atheism can't coexist. Well, they can't if you believe religion is a global reality instead of a subjective concept that is unique to each individual. If we're going to go down this route, then it's not just one religion that's the right one, it's one singular person. Everyone, even members of the same church, will have differing opinions of their religion; that's how religions split into sects in the first place.

So, who is it? If there is only one truth, then there's only one, and everything that differs from it is wrong, and only that one person will go to Heaven. The only other option is that religion can be interpreted differently by different people, leaving us with the reality of different belief systems, none of which can be proven or disproven until after death.

Schrodinger's God, able to both exist and not exist at the same time, at least during a human's life on earth, a time we are most certainly in.

[Sarah]

I like that parable o8. And I also agree with what Mee said-

I just want to say that the point of that post was not to say that alternate interpretations of God are impossible, but that Atheism and Theism cannot exist side-by-side.

If I say there is an apple in my hand, and you say there is not, then one of us is wrong.

But I guess Forge is right too... and Kali where your post fails is that God doesn't expect us to be right. We can never know everything, we just have to try. You can believe in false doctrines and whatnot and get into heaven - and just because you somehow know everything about the church and theology doesn't mean you're going, either.

[Forge]

Yes, Theism/Atheism can't coexist. Well, they can't if you believe religion is a global reality instead of a subjective concept that is unique to each individual. If we're going to go down this route, then it's not just one religion that's the right one, it's one singular person. Everyone, even members of the same church, will have differing opinions of their religion; that's how religions split into sects in the first place.

I disagree. Two Christians can disagree whether they think Jesus was right-handed or left-handed, but they won't disagree on core beliefs, like God exists and Jesus is his son.

If you'd like to say that no one is completely right about God, religion, and all the fish, then I'd be inclined to agree with you. Even across religions, people believe the same things, like how the Muslims preach submission to God or even how (most) atheists believe we humans should be all we can be.

That doesn't change the fact that core beliefs for each of those other religions can never coexist.

So, who is it? If there is only one truth, then there's only one, and everything that differs from it is wrong, and only that one person will go to Heaven. The only other option is that religion can be interpreted differently by different people, leaving us with the reality of different belief systems, none of which can be proven or disproven until after death.

You're confusing core beliefs with secondary beliefs. God exists, Muhammad is his prophet, you will be reincarnated according to your karma... those are primary beliefs.

Whether you believe you'll come back as a goldfish or a barracuda are secondary, or whether the Pope dude is special or not.

While I suppose God might be a cosmic ba***** and only allow one single person into heaven, I don't think that's how it works.

Schrodinger's God, able to both exist and not exist at the same time, at least during a human's life on earth, a time we are most certainly in.

I never understood Schrodinger's Cat myself. The cat either dies or it doesn't. Whether or not we can ever know it or not doesn't change the fact.

[mario]

So, who is it? If there is only one truth, then there's only one, and everything that differs from it is wrong, and only that one person will go to Heaven.

I'm pretty sure were talking about Kanye West..or at least I think he thinks this too. =P

[airpupil]

You're confusing core beliefs with secondary beliefs. God exists, Muhammad is his prophet, you will be reincarnated according to your karma... those are primary beliefs.

Whether you believe you'll come back as a goldfish or a barracuda are secondary, or whether the Pope dude is special or not.

There might be a limited amount of existing core beliefs, but there are lots more core beliefs that no one has thought of yet, or that no one believes in.

Those could very well be true too, so the chance of even one person or one group of people going to heaven is really small.

[wilemi]

Meh, I guess you're right, wilemi.

Sorry... ^_^

o___o

You can rebut if you want to....

[Ex-One-Week Wizard]

...why?

[wilemi]

...why not?

[Ex-One-Week Wizard]

Because I have overblown anger issues, and religion isn't worth defending.

[airpupil]

...and religion isn't worth defending.

quoted.